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Non-Lethal Weapons For Those Who Don't Want To Kill Anybody - Page 2
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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Rural, Kentucky
    I can only speak from my experience and training. I was a Deputy sheriff in KY. Under KY law you do not have to wait until you are attacked to begin to defend yourself . You are allowed to use force in a preemptive manner if a "reasonable person" would fear an eminent attack was about to be launched against you. If a reasonable person believed the attack was going to be of a nonlethal nature , "deadly force " would be inappropriate.. This would be when the use of nonlethal force would be justifiable but lethal force would not be justifiable.

    Mitigating factors might affect the situation. Are you outnumbered or grossly out sized? Are you disabled? Are you trained in the use and retention of weapons? One person might be believed by a grand jury to be " reasonable " , wherein another in the same circumstance might not be thought to be "reasonable".

    For instance, I am a former Law Enforcement Officer with a great deal of training and experience. I am likely to be held to a higher expectation, to use a lesser means of force, than an untrained person in the same situation.

    I am basing my opinion on the law as it stands in our present situation and not in a situation where a total breakdown of society and law has occurred. Such a situation would undoubtedly be a mitigating factor in the mind of a grand juror.

    In short , justification for the use of force being reasonable or unreasonable is always left to the judgment of a Grand Juror, with the exception of a limited number of circumstances narrowly defined by the “Castel Doctrine”.
    Last edited by Bill M; 03-26-2011 at 09:00 AM.

  2. #12
    In Colorado I understand that if the person is in your house unlawfully, you can kill them. They just gotta drop in the house.

    For some reason, if the crazy chick broke in through your window and is standing at your bed with a weapon, you of course can shoot, but she better not fall back out the window. That's the common understanding anyway.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Rural, Kentucky
    Quote Originally Posted by NewRodeo View Post
    In Colorado I understand that if the person is in your house unlawfully, you can kill them. They just gotta drop in the house.

    For some reason, if the crazy chick broke in through your window and is standing at your bed with a weapon, you of course can shoot, but she better not fall back out the window. That's the common understanding anyway.
    Would that be the crazy chick exception in the 'Castel Doctrin" ?

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill M View Post
    Would that be the crazy chick exception in the 'Castel Doctrin" ?
    we actually refer to it as the "make my day" law
    Dirty Harry has little time for crazy chicks.

  5. #15
    Accomplished ? At What ? With that frame of mind you will Die. Your family will die with you. They will take what they want, when they want.
    If you can not (or won't ) defend your family I fear you are in for a horrible fate.

    Just my thoughts.

  6. #16
    I'm with you Deac.
    A veteran is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to The United States of America, for an amount "up to and including my life". - Unknown

    Inspiration: The momentary cessation of stupidity.

  7. #17
    I used to do a lot with less than lethal weapons, and in the hands of troops, they were generally used to make their other weapons MORE lethal, like fixing someone in place so they could get a better shot/cleaner kill. That, IMHO, is what less than lethal weapons should be for. Stop if you must, but you usually make the problem worse for everyone.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Please excuse me but I'm going to act like teh boring old grandfather here, but should we have a situation either social upheaval, natural disaster or economic breakdown, then we could consider that a stable legal situation may retrun and any fatalities could be investigated. For this reason I woudl not dismiss 'less than lethal' options. Plus if the SHTF and we end up with TEOTWAWKI, woudl you really want a dead body on your premises with all the hassle of disease and other problems of getting rid of teh stiff?
    Please consider teh following. If you live in a country or state that permits capsicum/CS sprey please invest in a few. If you have the time, open up a few shotgun shells and fill where the shot was with Rock Salt. It hurts when blasted at a body but it eventually disolves. A very high power latern/ touch (1,000,000+candlepower) is incapcitating when shone into someones face from most distances. Then there is always the faithful hound. Any dog treated well will protect its owner and make any assailtent think twice about having a go at you. Please aviod weapon/fighting type dogs as they are difficult to call off from the attack and are subject to threft from scumbags who liek status and fighting digs.

  9. #19
    I started a similar thread before I saw this one. I am too reticent to use lethal/maiming weapons.

    1) Light
    I recommended LED lights attached to ones hat or helmet. One feels like one is in daylight. If the other guy has a gun then they know where to shoot but if not then a helmet with LOTS of lux feels great at least. I also recommend fitting a powerful LED light to any weapon (spray, stick or more lethal)

    2) Laser Light
    Cheap laser pointers can be had for a dollar. How about twenty of those taped (somehow wired) together and pointed at the intruders eyes? Or a more expensive laser pointer. It may encourage an intruder to think I have a sniper rifle and back down (or shoot me?). A laster on the end of any weapon, next to the light? A laser taped to any sprayer to see where it is pointing?

    3) Sound
    Is there any point in having a really loud air horn? Can it slow an opponent down a split second enough to know a weapon out of their hand?
    Music? Rig your music system to come on remote control playing your favourite weird music? Mamma by Genesis? It could give the defender a psychological advantage or at least allow me to fight to a tune I like (as opposed to a scary black, silence). Does I think that silence favours an intruder rather than a defender, but I am not sure.

    4) Sprays.
    Sprays sound like a great non-lethal defensive weapon.

    4.1) Speed of sprays
    Sprays are recommended above but which one, where and when and against which opponent?

    The most basic is the question, do they work quickly? The informative thread below claims that even the pepper the police are using take a while to kick in. Please read
    "If you pepper spray a guy with a knife, expect to get attacked by a very angry guy with a knife."

    I want something that can slow don someone coming at me. When I was about 10 a friend sprayed me with CS gas. It was not like peppery sensation but more...psychological...I felt like I had been punched or nerve gassed and dropped to the floor. Is CS gas recommended? Or only on 10 year olds?

    What about normal spray versus blast? There is the Kimber "pepperblaster" product, but I see it has only two shots.

    4.2) Are there homemade alternatives that have immediate slowing down potential?
    The home made pepper spray thread is perhaps the place for this.
    A lot of sprays seem to be so small. I may miss till my spray runs out. Most of the DIY recipes online suggest chillipeppers and ethanol then oil for a portable sprayer. I am thinking of at least a litre if not litres of the stuff. I have a high pressure, pump-up, back mounted, garden sprayer that holds 4 litres and fires about 4 metres. If I hear sounds at night, and have time to pump up before leaving my bolted bedroom, what would happen if I had that full of chilli-powered, citrus, full-strenght-detergent, and came out crop spraying as it were? No faffing about with little aerosols that cost 50 bucks. If it is both non lethal and cheap then I could use it like a helicopter gunship and bathe my intruder in pepper.

    Mouthwash sounds good too. How much is a litre of mouthwash?

    4.3) What about when indoors? With CS gas or pepper, will I be effectively spraying myself? The place I most am likely to use a weapon is on an intruder. But my home is not large. Does a ski mask work? What if the intruder is wearing one?
    Speaking of gases, once I dropped some black pepper on an electric range. The resulting gas was very potently unpleasant.

    5) Stun guns? Are they any good defensively. There are some that are baton lenght. Do they really stun? If the other guy is grappling me will I stun myself?
    (The firing type of tasers sound too lethal)

    6) High powered magnets as a defense against metal weapons?
    Scenario, a guy comes at me with his knife which sticks to my bucket shaped magnet glove thing, and I then taser him.

    7) Handcuffs and other restrainers for when your non lethal weapons have worked?
    Those plastic bands that Marines use in Iraq? Even if peppered, or beaten it seems to me an intruder will not keep still.

  10. #20
    Avalonian wrote
    >A very high power latern/ touch (1,000,000+candlepower) when shone into someones face
    Excellent idea. The Cyclops 9 Watt (300 lumen) gun shaped LED spotlight looks like a good idea. It weights a kilo so would need to be hand held. If it were wrist mountable it would allow one to hold a pepper spray in the same hand.
    Aha, the Trustfire and Ultrafire lights from Cree in 2xx, 300, 750, 1300 and 3800 Lumen (!!) models, in normal, thin, portable torch shape, look good and perhaps literally blinding. With lights this bright, cheap and portable, it does seem that torch light can become a vertible, non lethal but debilitating weapon. They could be wrist mounted or taped to the side of a spray or stick etc. In case the other guy has one dark sunglasses might be a good idea.

    (By the way, will the moderators be so kind as to let me know should my recent long post be binned? Just out of interest.)
    Last edited by 4410; 01-06-2012 at 09:48 PM.


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